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Post by sydneythekangaroo on Jul 6, 2023 16:28:50 GMT -6
Kaa's songs are very enjoyable for me. The melodic qualities of the soundtrack in general make the movie quite legendary. I cannot imagine the movie with a different score or tone in how the characters were portrayed.
I did also enjoy the remake back in 2016.
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June
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Post by June on Jul 11, 2023 6:38:21 GMT -6
I don't see how anybody could make a reasonable argument for it being anything other than Trust In Me. The song sung in the first encounter is more or less the tune of "rock-a-bye-baby" if you listen carefully, and honestly I don't find that song particularly hypnotic whether or not Kaa is singing it.
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Post by sydneythekangaroo on Jul 11, 2023 11:05:07 GMT -6
I don't see how anybody could make a reasonable argument for it being anything other than Trust In Me. The song sung in the first encounter is more or less the tune of "rock-a-bye-baby" if you listen carefully, and honestly I don't find that song particularly hypnotic whether or not Kaa is singing it. Trust In Me is an amazing song and moment, I only caught the 'rock-a-bye-baby' reference when it was pointed out in the subtitles to the film lol. It's an interesting reference though. I enjoyed the melody of 'My Own Home' too. Equally hypnotic but with a different undertone.
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June
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Post by June on Sept 11, 2023 2:33:35 GMT -6
I don't see how anybody could make a reasonable argument for it being anything other than Trust In Me. The song sung in the first encounter is more or less the tune of "rock-a-bye-baby" if you listen carefully, and honestly I don't find that song particularly hypnotic whether or not Kaa is singing it. Trust In Me is an amazing song and moment, I only caught the 'rock-a-bye-baby' reference when it was pointed out in the subtitles to the film lol. It's an interesting reference though. I enjoyed the melody of 'My Own Home' too. Equally hypnotic but with a different undertone. "My Own Home" being described as hypnotic by the both of you is very interesting - I wonder if it might in fact have been a deliberate parallel on the part of the film. Consider that more or less immediately prior to the climax is where we have the second encounter. It's the thing which brings Mowgli down to his lowest point, which is where he's talking to the vultures, and it helps serve as a wake-up call for Mowgli, since the one offering to let him stay in the jungle didn't have his best interests in mind, reminding him that perhaps Bagheera and Baloo actually do. After the climax of the movie and Mowgli is taken to the man-village, we have him entering his highest point, being blissfully happy and in love with Shanti, as well as being tempted by her and lured in with a song like in the second encounter, but in a 'good' way, persuading Mowgli to 'grow up' and leave the jungle, essentially the exact inverse of the second encounter.
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Post by sydneythekangaroo on Oct 2, 2023 1:59:40 GMT -6
Trust In Me is an amazing song and moment, I only caught the 'rock-a-bye-baby' reference when it was pointed out in the subtitles to the film lol. It's an interesting reference though. I enjoyed the melody of 'My Own Home' too. Equally hypnotic but with a different undertone. "My Own Home" being described as hypnotic by the both of you is very interesting - I wonder if it might in fact have been a deliberate parallel on the part of the film. Consider that more or less immediately prior to the climax is where we have the second encounter. It's the thing which brings Mowgli down to his lowest point, which is where he's talking to the vultures, and it helps serve as a wake-up call for Mowgli, since the one offering to let him stay in the jungle didn't have his best interests in mind, reminding him that perhaps Bagheera and Baloo actually do. After the climax of the movie and Mowgli is taken to the man-village, we have him entering his highest point, being blissfully happy and in love with Shanti, as well as being tempted by her and lured in with a song like in the second encounter, but in a 'good' way, persuading Mowgli to 'grow up' and leave the jungle, essentially the exact inverse of the second encounter. My thoughts exactly when looking back at this movie as a grown up. Mowgli seemed awfully susceptible to Kaa's hypnosis in the two encounters he had with the snake. So perhaps that mental-conditioning worked in his favor at the very end of the movie. Personally, the power of Kaa's song in the second encounter far exceeds Shanti's song. But it's still a very sweet and somewhat amusing scene as Mowgli becomes ''entranced'' for the final time in the movie.
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June
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Post by June on Oct 4, 2023 4:11:42 GMT -6
You're of course correct regarding the power of Kaa's song, but I think that too is part of the intent - because Kaa is convincing Mowgli to do something very dangerous, trusting in him. Whilst Shanti is convincing Mowgli to do something perfectly safe, but just what initially he doesn't want to do. The connection is just that Kaa feeds into what Mowgli wants, to stay in the Jungle, whilst Shanti is persuading him to leave it, and this is the difference in indicating that Kaa's seduction is false, while Shanti's is honest and true. It's also mirrored in the sequel - Mowgli's trying to persuade Shanti to brave the jungle with him, whilst when Kaa finds her, he plays into what she wants like he did with Mowgli - security, protection from a friend, an authority figure to listen to. That's why to Mowgli he presents himself as an equal, calling himself his 'friend', whilst he calls Shanti 'little one', belittling her. I.e don't trust people who just tell you what you want to hear.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2023 14:55:21 GMT -6
You're of course correct regarding the power of Kaa's song, but I think that too is part of the intent - because Kaa is convincing Mowgli to do something very dangerous, trusting in him. Whilst Shanti is convincing Mowgli to do something perfectly safe, but just what initially he doesn't want to do. The connection is just that Kaa feeds into what Mowgli wants, to stay in the Jungle, whilst Shanti is persuading him to leave it, and this is the difference in indicating that Kaa's seduction is false, while Shanti's is honest and true. It's also mirrored in the sequel - Mowgli's trying to persuade Shanti to brave the jungle with him, whilst when Kaa finds her, he plays into what she wants like he did with Mowgli - security, protection from a friend, an authority figure to listen to. That's why to Mowgli he presents himself as an equal, calling himself his 'friend', whilst he calls Shanti 'little one', belittling her. I.e don't trust people who just tell you what you want to hear. But isn't Shanti still using her seduction to manipulate Mowgli? I mean Kaa provides Mowgli with a false sense of security and comfort in their first and second meeting. But Mowgli did not want to go back to the man village from the beginning of the movie...Also right before his encounter with Shanti he still seemed very happy to be back with Baloo, living free in the jungle. As soon as Mowgli hears the girls singing he is under a spell, ignoring Baloo's encouragement to come back, after finally gaining acceptance from his friend. It's still a cute ending and I loved Shanti's character, but none the less felt kinda neutral about it..
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June
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Post by June on Oct 11, 2023 11:15:34 GMT -6
What I mean is that Shanti genuinely loves Mowgli, whereas Kaa's seduction is so he can eat Mowgli. Plus being made when it was, and considering the original book's message, it's clear the film at least wishes to portray Shanti 'civilising' Mowgli as a positive. Regarding Shanti manipulating Mowgli, another interesting parallel between her and Kaa is that a note is made at the beginning of Jungle Book 2 of Shanti's "beautiful brown eyes". Plus the teasing of Mowgli for falling under Shanti's 'spell' by their adoptive families. As far as Mowgli being literally under a spell, I think the original movie shows him looking back and reconsidering before making his decision to enter the man-village, so he's not entirely coerced. And in the second movie, there's plenty of times where Mowgli is bullying Shanti, I'm sure if she could put him under a spell then she most certainly would do so again to get him to stop.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2023 13:01:13 GMT -6
What I mean is that Shanti genuinely loves Mowgli, whereas Kaa's seduction is so he can eat Mowgli. Plus being made when it was, and considering the original book's message, it's clear the film at least wishes to portray Shanti 'civilising' Mowgli as a positive. Regarding Shanti manipulating Mowgli, another interesting parallel between her and Kaa is that a note is made at the beginning of Jungle Book 2 of Shanti's "beautiful brown eyes". Plus the teasing of Mowgli for falling under Shanti's 'spell' by their adoptive families. As far as Mowgli being literally under a spell, I think the original movie shows him looking back and reconsidering before making his decision to enter the man-village, so he's not entirely coerced. And in the second movie, there's plenty of times where Mowgli is bullying Shanti, I'm sure if she could put him under a spell then she most certainly would do so again to get him to stop. I never really checked the second movie out, but that's interesting, and yes, given the time this movie came out, I guess the ending was always heading in this direction, unlike the remake which I kinda preferred. I love how the ending of the original was played though. Her song imo is a lot more beautiful than Kaa's and while it may not be a literal ''spell'' it was very enchanting along with the look in her eyes. But if Shanti did possess some kind of hypnotic ability, I would rather be drawn in by her over Kaa, given the better life that humanity had to offer Mowgli.
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